wilburpan
Sep 19, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
Does it matter if it's one or two or four, as long as it's fast and get's the job done?
Of course, there's probably a huge difference in hardware costs, but hey, We're Number 3, We're Number 3, We're Number 3!
Well, the price differential is not inconsiderable. Based on the www.cpuscorecard.com website, I just spec'ed out a Dell computer with a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 (closest processor to the dual 1.25 Ghz Powermac) and compared it to a similarly outfitted Powermac from the Applestore:
Powermac:
� Power Mac G4 Dual 1.25GHz w/167MHz system bus
� 1GB PC2700 DDR SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
� 120GB Ultra ATA drive
� Optical 1 - Apple SuperDrive
� Optical 2 - None
� NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium dual-display w/128MB DDR
� 56K internal modem
� Apple Pro Speakers
� Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
� Mac OS - U.S. English
$4,008.00
Dell:
Pentium� 4 Processor at 2.40GHz with 533MHz system bus/ 512K L2 Cache D8224B
Memory: 1GB PC800 RDRAM(4x256M modules)
Keyboard: Dell� Quietkey� Keyboard
Video Card: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4� Ti 4200 Graphics Card with TV Out and DVI
Hard Drive: 120GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with DataBurst Cache�
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System: Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional
Mouse: Dell� 2-button scroll mouse
Broadband Ready/ Ethernet Network Card: Intel� Pro 100 M PCI Ethernet Network Card
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem
CD or DVD Drive: New DVD+RW/+R Drive with CD-RW
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card
Speakers: New Harman Kardon� HK-206 Speakers
Productivity Software: Microsoft� Office XP Small Business
Virus Protection: Norton AntiVirus� 90-day introductory offer
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year On-site Service
Internet Access Service: 6 Months AOL,Featuring the Netbusiness Service for Small Business
Video Editing: Premium Dell Movie Studio Bundle
Dual Monitor Support: DVI-VGA Adapter to connect 2 CRT Monitors to Ti4600 or Ti4200 Video Card
$2,616.00
I tried to spec these two machines as close to each other as possible, even adding on some Dell software to account for the iApps in Jaguar, and the price differential is still over $1300. Granted, currently you can get Indesign for free, but that's a $800 value at best, and I didn't factor in the cost of an office suite for the Powermac.
Please let me know if I've missed anything in matching specs. I still am planning on making the switch from Windows to Mac, but I also am aware of the price differential. It's not enough of a difference to deter me, but it is probably asking a bit much to expect everyone considering the purchase of a Mac to ignore the price factor, especially considering the fuss raised when Apple decided to charge $8 a month for .Mac services.
Does it matter if it's one or two or four, as long as it's fast and get's the job done?
Of course, there's probably a huge difference in hardware costs, but hey, We're Number 3, We're Number 3, We're Number 3!
Well, the price differential is not inconsiderable. Based on the www.cpuscorecard.com website, I just spec'ed out a Dell computer with a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 (closest processor to the dual 1.25 Ghz Powermac) and compared it to a similarly outfitted Powermac from the Applestore:
Powermac:
� Power Mac G4 Dual 1.25GHz w/167MHz system bus
� 1GB PC2700 DDR SDRAM - 2 DIMMs
� 120GB Ultra ATA drive
� Optical 1 - Apple SuperDrive
� Optical 2 - None
� NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium dual-display w/128MB DDR
� 56K internal modem
� Apple Pro Speakers
� Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
� Mac OS - U.S. English
$4,008.00
Dell:
Pentium� 4 Processor at 2.40GHz with 533MHz system bus/ 512K L2 Cache D8224B
Memory: 1GB PC800 RDRAM(4x256M modules)
Keyboard: Dell� Quietkey� Keyboard
Video Card: New 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4� Ti 4200 Graphics Card with TV Out and DVI
Hard Drive: 120GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with DataBurst Cache�
Floppy Drive: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
Operating System: Microsoft� Windows� XP Professional
Mouse: Dell� 2-button scroll mouse
Broadband Ready/ Ethernet Network Card: Intel� Pro 100 M PCI Ethernet Network Card
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem
CD or DVD Drive: New DVD+RW/+R Drive with CD-RW
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Live! Digital Sound Card
Speakers: New Harman Kardon� HK-206 Speakers
Productivity Software: Microsoft� Office XP Small Business
Virus Protection: Norton AntiVirus� 90-day introductory offer
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year On-site Service
Internet Access Service: 6 Months AOL,Featuring the Netbusiness Service for Small Business
Video Editing: Premium Dell Movie Studio Bundle
Dual Monitor Support: DVI-VGA Adapter to connect 2 CRT Monitors to Ti4600 or Ti4200 Video Card
$2,616.00
I tried to spec these two machines as close to each other as possible, even adding on some Dell software to account for the iApps in Jaguar, and the price differential is still over $1300. Granted, currently you can get Indesign for free, but that's a $800 value at best, and I didn't factor in the cost of an office suite for the Powermac.
Please let me know if I've missed anything in matching specs. I still am planning on making the switch from Windows to Mac, but I also am aware of the price differential. It's not enough of a difference to deter me, but it is probably asking a bit much to expect everyone considering the purchase of a Mac to ignore the price factor, especially considering the fuss raised when Apple decided to charge $8 a month for .Mac services.
DPinTX
Mar 11, 08:56 AM
Must be nice to be able to spend all day standing in line. I have to earn my iPad 2 today by going to work. I plan on getting there at 4:00pm sharp, save me a white 32gb with an orange cover please :-)
My job is standing in line
Mall security is getting anal about sitting in front of stores. They came by and measured out from the store opening and if you are in the way they make you move.
On a good note the Nestle toll house cookie store is starting to open.
DP
My job is standing in line
Mall security is getting anal about sitting in front of stores. They came by and measured out from the store opening and if you are in the way they make you move.
On a good note the Nestle toll house cookie store is starting to open.
DP
AmericanIdiot12
Sep 6, 07:53 PM
its basically things overheard in new york and then posted on this site
i should warn you there are some kinda dirty topics on it though
http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/
i should warn you there are some kinda dirty topics on it though
http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/
Eddyisgreat
Nov 17, 03:43 PM
lol after lawyer fee's he's going to be -.25.
more...
janstett
Nov 11, 11:50 AM
I've been to Tokyo twice and I don't recall seeing a single person wearing a hoodie.
jsw
Sep 13, 09:14 AM
No, it's the anethesist who is is dreamy, the neurosurgeon is a cut-up.
Wait, maybe the neurosurgeon is sharp and the anethesist is a gas...
more...
designs patterns backgrounds.
Pink wallpaper with black
more...
Patterns Design Showcase
Wallpaper – Red Bird
more...
Soft Curves wallpaper
Patterns, Wallpaper
more...
vintage wallpaper designs.
cd cover « DragonArtz Designs
more...
Aimee Wilder designs wallpaper
DESIGNS PATTERNS BACKGROUNDS
more...
Wallpaper – decking the halls
book-shelves-wallpaper-designs
patterns wallpaper. wallpaper patterns photoshop. wallpaper patterns photoshop. TurnerMan. May 17, 12:32 PM. I moved to Newport News, VA (23601) almost
Wait, maybe the neurosurgeon is sharp and the anethesist is a gas...
more...
erictheb
Nov 12, 12:47 AM
Trying Japanese (Shift JIS) this time
�ǂ߂�́H
sorry about this, but I've had trouble with Japanese text only getting thru intact to a portion of friends to whom I write. Haven't been able to come up with a determination of what the issue is (e.g., Yahoo, 10.4.x, Hotmail). And it's late and I'm avoiding doing work.
Again, sorry for the massively off-topic stuff here...I thank you for your patience (if you actually are patient about it).
EB
�ǂ߂�́H
sorry about this, but I've had trouble with Japanese text only getting thru intact to a portion of friends to whom I write. Haven't been able to come up with a determination of what the issue is (e.g., Yahoo, 10.4.x, Hotmail). And it's late and I'm avoiding doing work.
Again, sorry for the massively off-topic stuff here...I thank you for your patience (if you actually are patient about it).
EB
JoeG4
Mar 19, 03:06 AM
You don't need a fancy camera to take pretty pictures ;)
more...
leetard
Nov 14, 04:13 PM
I can't wait for the other ones to be redone:
"Whassa happonin' Hotstuff? PC Home Movie!"
"Whassa happonin' Hotstuff? PC Home Movie!"
iJohnHenry
Apr 28, 07:20 PM
I guess it never ends...
Not in our life-time.
Revenue shortfalls represent terror to bureaucrats defending budgets for next year.
Not in our life-time.
Revenue shortfalls represent terror to bureaucrats defending budgets for next year.
more...
citizenzen
Apr 7, 08:00 PM
50 billion out of a budget of what? A trillion and a bit?
I could remove 25% of your body weight and make you slim and sexy.
On the other hand, I could remove less than 2% of your body weight and render you a useless, comatose, vegetable.
It's not a matter of how much is cut as it is what is cut.
I could remove 25% of your body weight and make you slim and sexy.
On the other hand, I could remove less than 2% of your body weight and render you a useless, comatose, vegetable.
It's not a matter of how much is cut as it is what is cut.
christian_k
Apr 28, 08:56 AM
When developers download and install Lion from the App Store, it does create a recover partition. No need to burn it to a disk or restore to USB, but of course you can if you want.
I would gladly pay a $15 premium to get Lion on a flash drive. DVD-based installs are just too slow and painful.
I think theys should offer it on flash drive as an option at least.
Imageine you have an 11'' MBA with 64 GB SSD:
- Space too tight for an additional recovery parition
- No drive to burn installation disc, maybe no USB drive for the MBA if you used another computer to do it.
- Possibly no 8GB+ flash drive at home to create a bootable yourself
. Panic recovery: MBA does not boot anymore. Install 10.5 from flash drive, download 10.6, update to 10.6 -> very long time
- Installation via HTTP/FTP: Dangerous when upgrading. If your connection fails during update your system is in an unpredictable state
- Many people in many places still do not have internet access fast enough to download a multi GB OS or they have volume caps.
Christian
I would gladly pay a $15 premium to get Lion on a flash drive. DVD-based installs are just too slow and painful.
I think theys should offer it on flash drive as an option at least.
Imageine you have an 11'' MBA with 64 GB SSD:
- Space too tight for an additional recovery parition
- No drive to burn installation disc, maybe no USB drive for the MBA if you used another computer to do it.
- Possibly no 8GB+ flash drive at home to create a bootable yourself
. Panic recovery: MBA does not boot anymore. Install 10.5 from flash drive, download 10.6, update to 10.6 -> very long time
- Installation via HTTP/FTP: Dangerous when upgrading. If your connection fails during update your system is in an unpredictable state
- Many people in many places still do not have internet access fast enough to download a multi GB OS or they have volume caps.
Christian
more...
Burnsey
May 3, 07:18 PM
They will do a ton of damage in those four years, so get ready. The more I read about them , the more they scare me just as much as our conservatives do.
Wow- just watched him. He's a real horse's ass. How the hell did you guys elect that fool? I'm even more concerned for you Canadians now.
Their performance on the economy has been pretty good so far (even though prior to the recession they opposed the very banking regulations that kept Canada in decent shape coming out of the crisis). At the moment the economy seems to be the #1 priority for most people, and I guess a change in government in the middle of a recovery was not what people wanted.
The conservatives campaigned on "we didn't want an election, we were in the middle of fixing the economy when the other parties decided to call an election, all we ask is for a majority government so that we can go back to work and fix the economy without these distractions". I think that resonated with a lot of people.
Wow- just watched him. He's a real horse's ass. How the hell did you guys elect that fool? I'm even more concerned for you Canadians now.
Their performance on the economy has been pretty good so far (even though prior to the recession they opposed the very banking regulations that kept Canada in decent shape coming out of the crisis). At the moment the economy seems to be the #1 priority for most people, and I guess a change in government in the middle of a recovery was not what people wanted.
The conservatives campaigned on "we didn't want an election, we were in the middle of fixing the economy when the other parties decided to call an election, all we ask is for a majority government so that we can go back to work and fix the economy without these distractions". I think that resonated with a lot of people.
mikes63737
Dec 6, 02:13 PM
Macs have the intelligence built in to auto-connect independent of the cable type. It doesn't matter what kind of cable you use, your Mac sorts it out internally. Cool, huh? :cool:
I didn't know that. That's kinda cool!
I didn't know that. That's kinda cool!
more...
j_maddison
Mar 19, 04:44 PM
wtf?
4 years ago my brother (parents) had to pay $2000 for his "tablet PC" from HP in highschool.
This works out to what, $470 a piece? Give me a break.
The iPad is not a tablet PC. You can still pay $2,000 for a tablet PC if you want. The iPad is a tablet yes, but it doesn't run a full blown deskptop OS (I'm not getting into that argument).
My point is, Apple used to offer excellent discounts to students and teachers across all of it's product ranges. It's a shame they're not offering the same with the iPad.
4 years ago my brother (parents) had to pay $2000 for his "tablet PC" from HP in highschool.
This works out to what, $470 a piece? Give me a break.
The iPad is not a tablet PC. You can still pay $2,000 for a tablet PC if you want. The iPad is a tablet yes, but it doesn't run a full blown deskptop OS (I'm not getting into that argument).
My point is, Apple used to offer excellent discounts to students and teachers across all of it's product ranges. It's a shame they're not offering the same with the iPad.
Horrortaxi
Apr 2, 12:15 PM
I'm sorry you had problems but Pages is a 1.0 release and you're an early adopter. That can be a hard road if you choose to take it.
more...
daze
Apr 15, 09:28 PM
I'd like to help. I think my PS3 can do Folding.
yurarse
Sep 20, 07:48 PM
Updated the EFI and the beast is moving faster (I did'nt hear any loud fans), SMC was already updated so I didnt need to download it.
But I dont see the other Hard drives; can u point me to a link that has the information?
But I dont see the other Hard drives; can u point me to a link that has the information?
Kenrik
Mar 2, 08:19 AM
Um.. All of that looks the same. I really don't see many changes since Snow Leopard Server.. I will feel relieved as long as everything is still there. It all works pretty well once you know what you're doing.
I don't want to have to switch back to linux server admin... that's a nightmare.
More or less OSX server has always just been normal OSX with some server bits thrown in. Most of the packages are just open source unix/linux programs with a GUI on top.
You can install Apache and configure it yourself on a normal OSX install but.. I prefer the GUI rather then sort through httpd.conf in nano or vi.
I don't want to have to switch back to linux server admin... that's a nightmare.
More or less OSX server has always just been normal OSX with some server bits thrown in. Most of the packages are just open source unix/linux programs with a GUI on top.
You can install Apache and configure it yourself on a normal OSX install but.. I prefer the GUI rather then sort through httpd.conf in nano or vi.
WiiDSmoker
Feb 18, 10:51 AM
He must be pregnant.
Quick someone write a bogus report about this.
Quick someone write a bogus report about this.
Jasonbot
May 3, 04:13 PM
Sigh, My download option is still greyed out.
talmy
Mar 2, 10:41 PM
A lot of services are missing from server admin, some have dumbed down features in the server.app (which replaces server preferences) but a lot is missing.
Doesn't seem right to remove services. Perhaps they will reappear later in the beta.
At least for my use, all the services seem to be present (except Printer Server, which I use but don't really need, as all it really offers is spooling and is otherwise a PITA).
I don't really have time to install and look into this. I'll just investigate when the final release comes out, and maybe a .1 after that! I already know of some Lion issues that will keep me away for a while anyway. And as long as Snow Leopard server will work with Lion clients I can certainly wait!
Doesn't seem right to remove services. Perhaps they will reappear later in the beta.
At least for my use, all the services seem to be present (except Printer Server, which I use but don't really need, as all it really offers is spooling and is otherwise a PITA).
I don't really have time to install and look into this. I'll just investigate when the final release comes out, and maybe a .1 after that! I already know of some Lion issues that will keep me away for a while anyway. And as long as Snow Leopard server will work with Lion clients I can certainly wait!
nixd2001
Sep 14, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by onemoof
Someone asked the difference between RISC and CISC.
First thing, there isn't that distinction anymore. RISC originally meant that the processor had fixed width instructions (so it wouldn't have to waste time asking the software how big the next instruction will be). CISC mean that the processor had variable width instructions (meaning time would have to be taken to figure out how long the next instruction is before fetching it.) However, Intel has addressed this problem by making it possible for the processor to switch to a fixed-width mode for special processor intensive purposes. The PowerPC is stuck with fixed-width and has no ability to enjoy the flexibility of variable-width instructions for non-processor-intensive tasks. This means that CISC is now better than RISC. (Using the terms to loosely define Pentium as CISC and PowerPC as RISC.)
Originally it was Reduced versus Complex instruction set computer. Making simpler processors go faster is generally easier than making complex processors go faster as there is less internal state/logic to synchronise and keep track of. For any given fabrication technology, this still generally holds true. Intel managed to sidestep this principle by investing massive sums in their fab plants, effectively meaning that the fab processes being compared weren't the same.
The opposite end of the spectrum from RISC is arguably the VAX line. With this instruction set, massive complexities arose from the fact that a single instruction took so long and did so much. It was possible for timers, interrupts and "page faults" to occur midway during an instruction. This required saving a lot of internal state so that it could later be restored. There were examples of performing a given operation with a single instruction or a sequence of instructions that performed the same effect, but where the sequence achieved the join quicker because the internal implementation within the processor was able to get on with the job quicker because it was actually a simpler task being asked of it.
The idea of fixed sized instructions isn't directly coupled to the original notion of RISC, although it is only one step behind. One of the basic ideas with the original RISC processors was that an instruction should only take a single cycle to complete. So a 100MHz CPU might actually achieve 100M instructions per second. (This was often not achieved due to memory latencies, but this isn't the "fault" of the processor core). In this context, having a variable length instruction means that it is easy for the instruction decoding (especially if it requires more than one "word") to require for effort than any other aspect of executing an instruction.
There are situations where a variable width instruction might have advantages, but the argument goes that breaking the overall task down into equal sized instructions means that fetching (including caching, branch predicting, ec) and decoding these instructions becomes simpler, permitting optimisations and speed gains to be made elsewhere in the processor design.
Intel blur RISC and CISC into gray by effectively executing RISC instructions internally, even if they support the apparent decoding of CISC insructions. They only do this for legacy reasons.
Apple will never switch to IA32 (Pentium) because 32 bit processors are a dead-end and maybe have a couple years left. The reason is because they can only have a maximum of 4 GB of RAM [ (2^32)/(1 Billion) = 4.29 GB ]. This limit is very close to being reached in current desktop computers. Apple MAY at some point decide to jump to IA64 in my opinion, and I think they should. Obviously the Intel family of processors is unbeatable unless they have some sort of catastrophe happen to them. If Apple jumped on they'd be back on track. Unfortunately I don't believe IA64 is yet cheap enough for desktops.
I think this "unbeatable" assertion requires some qualification. It may be that Intel will achieve the best price/performance ratio within a suitable range of qualifications, but this is different from always achieving best p/p ratio whatever. Indeed, IA64 versus Power4 is going to be an interesting battle because Intel has bet on ILP (instruction level parallelism) whereas IBM has bet on data bandwidth. Ultimately (and today!), I think IBM's bet has more going for it. But that's if you want ultimate performance. The PC space is often characterised by people apparenntly wanting ultimate performance but actually always massively qualifiying it with severe price restrictions (such as less than 5 digits to the price).
Someone asked the difference between RISC and CISC.
First thing, there isn't that distinction anymore. RISC originally meant that the processor had fixed width instructions (so it wouldn't have to waste time asking the software how big the next instruction will be). CISC mean that the processor had variable width instructions (meaning time would have to be taken to figure out how long the next instruction is before fetching it.) However, Intel has addressed this problem by making it possible for the processor to switch to a fixed-width mode for special processor intensive purposes. The PowerPC is stuck with fixed-width and has no ability to enjoy the flexibility of variable-width instructions for non-processor-intensive tasks. This means that CISC is now better than RISC. (Using the terms to loosely define Pentium as CISC and PowerPC as RISC.)
Originally it was Reduced versus Complex instruction set computer. Making simpler processors go faster is generally easier than making complex processors go faster as there is less internal state/logic to synchronise and keep track of. For any given fabrication technology, this still generally holds true. Intel managed to sidestep this principle by investing massive sums in their fab plants, effectively meaning that the fab processes being compared weren't the same.
The opposite end of the spectrum from RISC is arguably the VAX line. With this instruction set, massive complexities arose from the fact that a single instruction took so long and did so much. It was possible for timers, interrupts and "page faults" to occur midway during an instruction. This required saving a lot of internal state so that it could later be restored. There were examples of performing a given operation with a single instruction or a sequence of instructions that performed the same effect, but where the sequence achieved the join quicker because the internal implementation within the processor was able to get on with the job quicker because it was actually a simpler task being asked of it.
The idea of fixed sized instructions isn't directly coupled to the original notion of RISC, although it is only one step behind. One of the basic ideas with the original RISC processors was that an instruction should only take a single cycle to complete. So a 100MHz CPU might actually achieve 100M instructions per second. (This was often not achieved due to memory latencies, but this isn't the "fault" of the processor core). In this context, having a variable length instruction means that it is easy for the instruction decoding (especially if it requires more than one "word") to require for effort than any other aspect of executing an instruction.
There are situations where a variable width instruction might have advantages, but the argument goes that breaking the overall task down into equal sized instructions means that fetching (including caching, branch predicting, ec) and decoding these instructions becomes simpler, permitting optimisations and speed gains to be made elsewhere in the processor design.
Intel blur RISC and CISC into gray by effectively executing RISC instructions internally, even if they support the apparent decoding of CISC insructions. They only do this for legacy reasons.
Apple will never switch to IA32 (Pentium) because 32 bit processors are a dead-end and maybe have a couple years left. The reason is because they can only have a maximum of 4 GB of RAM [ (2^32)/(1 Billion) = 4.29 GB ]. This limit is very close to being reached in current desktop computers. Apple MAY at some point decide to jump to IA64 in my opinion, and I think they should. Obviously the Intel family of processors is unbeatable unless they have some sort of catastrophe happen to them. If Apple jumped on they'd be back on track. Unfortunately I don't believe IA64 is yet cheap enough for desktops.
I think this "unbeatable" assertion requires some qualification. It may be that Intel will achieve the best price/performance ratio within a suitable range of qualifications, but this is different from always achieving best p/p ratio whatever. Indeed, IA64 versus Power4 is going to be an interesting battle because Intel has bet on ILP (instruction level parallelism) whereas IBM has bet on data bandwidth. Ultimately (and today!), I think IBM's bet has more going for it. But that's if you want ultimate performance. The PC space is often characterised by people apparenntly wanting ultimate performance but actually always massively qualifiying it with severe price restrictions (such as less than 5 digits to the price).
ch02ce
Apr 12, 01:16 PM
Bibliography sorting in Word is finally fixed! Now 100% less useless!
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